Ok, GA...let me say first that I think you take what I say as hostile. It's not at all...in any way. I was having a laugh while I wrote that. I'm not trying to be nasty or confuse you. I wasn't trying to prove a point either. If I was trying to further debate here it was only trying to get you to say what you think about something specific.

I think you talk around things and not about them...that was the whole thing in a nutshell. Instead of talking about what David Kay has said...and what you think or feel about that...you just say "I don't care what he said they are all hypocrites."

I dont know how many times I am gonna have to straighten this out. I doesnt make a damn bit of difference WHAT David Kay says. I DO NOT CARE about the substance of what David Kay says.

You don't have to explain that GA...I caught on to the fact that you don't care. You've made that point many times.

 Ya know why? Because now that he has been up there speaking, most people cannot even agree on WHAT IT WAS HE ACTUALLY SAID.

I don't really care what the "sides" thought about what he said either. I only care about what he said and that's what I'd prefer to discuss and hear you discuss. He was over there conducting a search...he knows stuff...important and historical stuff...so why not discuss his findings. Who cares what the right and left say...I agree on that.

Eaxh side has taken his words and turned it into thier own argument. The lefties say that he said there were no WMD's, and the righties say that what he said was those weapons were moved to Syria in the 6 months prior to the war. Regardless of what he said, some will believe it, and some wont, so it's a wash. Just more poltical bullshit.

Look, I agree with you on wasting time on how the left and right might "spin" his words...I could care less about that. Why do you think what Mr. Kay himself is saying is "bullshit"? Do you think Kay is not a solid source of information? Forget what talking heads or politicians say...I'm only asking you GA...George...what do you think...that's all...

Secondly, just because I dismiss the person who is making the argument, does not mean that I am dismising the argument itself.

Do you mean dismiss the person on this board that's made the post...or do you mean as an example...your dismissal of Mr. Kay's findings?

John Kerry can say all he wants about Iraq and WMD's, but he voted for it, and in the past he has made even stronger statements about it than GW did.So he is a flawed messenger. Reasonable people can argue about the validity of what he said, but he invalidated his ability to use that as an argument by his own statements.

Well, this argument you make here seems to me just a political argument. Kerry did what he did, explained what he did countless times now, sure it falls to the individual at that point whether or not they choose to buy or not buy what he said...but the choice to validate or invalidate John Kerry as a messenger is an individual one as well. Kerry at least provided a logical explanation for why he voted the way he did...I guess that all fall back into the shadowy world of belief. I am open to discussion about it though.

You are a fool if you think that there is any more sincerity in the heart of John Kerry than any other politician. Those kinds of politicians do not get elected.

Well, I can't see into the heart of John Kerry or any man so I really don't think about that much. I think we have to judge politicians on their actions...not their words...and that's about all we can do. The last part of your statement here is quite sad...because it's so true.

As far as "keeping my opinions close to the vest", there are MANY things that I could comment on that I let go. I could spend all day here taking shots at arguments and it would all amount to the same shit. I post a link, you post a link, I post a link, you point out that the author is a neocon, you post a link, I point out that the author is a commie.yadayadayada. You have no idea how many things I do NOT comment on, but for the most part it is worthless to do so. You ain't changing your mind are you?

I don't want to have link posting contests...I'm only looking for your thoughts. You chose to come here and say something about something and I respond to what you say...and if you want you respond to what I say. It's not about changing your mind it's about what's on your mind. Maybe I'll learn something or understand something or someone better so that I don't say something off the wall later. I guess I probably will continue to say nutty stuff...I enjoy that...but I don't expect us to cure cancer here just talk to one another.

As far as the "value of pointing out hypocrisy" is concerned. Why not? As far as YOU say anything I have posted is worthless anyway isnt it?

Now that's not true George. I may hassle you from time to time but it's because I expect you to say something of interest. I guess you could say I expect more of you because you do write for a living don't you? I'm always hoping for some thoughtful post from you...like that one where you talked about what you'd like to see government do...that was great...and I saw where you were coming from. So, if it seems I harass you it's because I'm trying to get you to say something...sorry for that...but that's the truth. 

How exactly have you advanced the debate here? Have you given any ideas on what to do about the many problems facing society other than removing George Bush?

Well, yes in fact I have. I also believe that getting rid of Bush is a big step in the right direction. I don't know if any one person alone can advance the debate...it requires group participation...and that's really my big complaint...not really with you...but I think we should try to focus on issues...not stupid shots and personal swipes...those are pointless.

I have. I stated quite clearly my opinions on a few things without having to leave a link or refer to Dems and Repubs for my info at all. 

You did and it was easily the best thing you ever posted here. Thanks for that. Sort of why I was pushing...ahh harassing you...for more....sorry again.

I said all of these without leaving any links pointing how EVIL a certain party is.

You always come back to this "evil" thing. You know I don't use "evil" in my discussions of things really...unless it's a joke...or we have to refer to our president and his war with the ambiguous "AXIS OF EVIL"...as a matter of fact Bush uses the word evil more than anyone on this board...but what I would say you're doing is just drawing your own conclusions that because we talk about the negative impact of the decisions they make...we think they are "evil."

 The continuous links to stories about cheney-bush-o'neill etc. are useless and do not advance any argument either. Politicians are beholden to the people that put them in office? That is like pointing out that people have feet.Ladeffuckindaaaa!

I don't think people post the stuff to "convert" people...I think they post it because they want to talk about it. It's not shock that they do it...it's sadness that they get away with it.

George Bush is one man. Him being an asshole does not have an effect in any way on my core beliefs, which are still very far from the Democratic Party, and pretty far from the Republicans, but not AS far.

I gathered that and I think that's great. Both parties seem to have been hijacked and their interests no longer seem to be our interests any more. I think that's worth discussion...and I think you do too...you've dedicated a portion of your life to that discussion no?

What in the hell is that Reg? Apparently, I am quite stupid, because I could not make heads or tales of that shit. If someone here can break that down for me please do. I got the part about "What David Kay said" obviously, but wtf is the rest?

The "that" in question was a gag...sorry I thought it was funny...it was meant to be a convoluted discussion of your discussion...ending with what I found to be a funny line about you being a people person. I'm a Monty Python fan...and sometimes I like to be ridiculous for the sake of being ridiculous...that wasn't really meant to be Pythonesque but it was meant to be funny...well it was to me...but I'm fucked...I'll admit that.  

Your main beef seems to be that the conservatives on this board spend all of thier time "poking holes" in what people say, and not advancing the discussion at all.

No, that's not my beef. It's that they don't even attempt to poke holes in what people say. They just say..."Well, I don't believe that." and here's an article that says Bill Clinton was a liar...or in your case "They are all hypocrites." and here's something that has liberals calling Bush a Nazi. My beef would be there's no attempt to discuss the issue...whatever it might be...that's presented. You pretty much have stated that discussing stuff like what David Kay says is pointless...that's fine I guess if that's your take.

And you chose to point this out by spending what looks like a significant amount of time and ALOT of words poking holes in everything i said and not advancing the argument at all.

I didn't spend much time on it...I type and think fast. Know how I keep leaving all these "..." everywhere in my posts, well that's where I actually paused thought for a second and then resumed typing...I was actually trying to "advance" the argument with you by getting you to say what exactly you thought.

I am sincerely sorry that my post forced you to take time out of the many constructive conversations (gag) that I see you having on this board. Please Forgive me, Dear Sir, for bringing you down to my level!

I do get the impression you don't like me very much. Maybe you'd like to buy a parrot...

You act as though you know me and you know what I am about.

Actually I said in a previous post I don't know you and have no idea what you're about. I would guess you'd like to keep it that way.

 The only person that I trust is ME.

What about Kravitz?

I process the various sources of info and come up with my own take.

I think we all work this way.

 I will not make the mistake of believing that another politician will save me from GW Bush.

Well, no I don't think we should ever believe that a politican could save us. I think what we hope for is a change of direction with the next guy. 

When the hell did these people become 50 percent of our lives? That is something we gotta change, and only we can do it.

Run for office yourself GA...as a Libertarian.

Exactly which party was it that had the House and the Senate all those years that we had those Republican Presidents? You know, the 2 places where all the money gets spent and all the decisions made?

I know, I know...my point was that the crew on top has hardly changed in my lifetime. We need some new lizards...maybe ones in donkey suits instead of the elephant suits...anyway you gotta start somewhere right?

What were we arguing about again?

Is this argument? I'm sorry I was looking for humiliation. Two doors down on the right is it?