Pretty messed up. I really enjoyed your response, Reg, and the detail in it. Probably is hard (given time) to keep going in written form, but this is interesting ground for a discussion. I find myself right with you on some of the points you raise and perhaps feeling you're either a bit off-base or making too-broad assumptions on others. But I'll submit these thoughts respectfully:
"Well, I think our huge issue is that the right has staked out a bunch of provable falsehoods as their "turf" and in doing so, and this is built-in to why this was done, ended the ability to have reasonable conversations." I'm so with you on this, and it's been really obvious where the Right Wing has done this. Less obvious, I think, is the extent to which the Left has done similar things. And they have. On elections, they've certainly told outright falsehoods about some currently-pending legislation, which on average has more to do with preventively plugging POTENTIAL sources of error or fraud than actively restricting rights. I've read several of the bills, and they most certainly misrepresent some of these, telling lies and playing to fear. A further issue would have to do with lack of enforcement of laws on certain crimes, including immigration.
But then again, the Right continually whining about a Stolen Election, which is clearly not proven, is a mirror image of those lies. CRT is a more difficult issue. Quite obviously, CRT is not something formally taught in schools so the Right Wing alarmists charging that are playing loose with facts. But finding bits and pieces of it in things taught has happened and has been documented. So it's also a kind of a lie to say it's not present. These issues ought to be debated, and vigorously, if needed. It's not acceptable to just reflexively scream "White supremecy" at every pushback. In the end, the Left's over-reliance on the racist narrative is likely to blow up in their face. It also actively discourages any reasonable and sober discussion. If conservatives constantly feel they are being pushed into a corner, they are likely to push back. This is the same way that Leftists being labelled childish things (like calling them Demorats or Demoncrats) only strengthens their resolve on biased labeling of that side. Far from false equivalence, I see both sides as essentially being guilty of the same approach. The breakdown of our ability to talk to one another is our fault, and it doesn't have root in only one side. Can tell you that in universities in the late 80s/early 90s, the aggression was FAR worse from the Left, and one might argue that the current status of the Right Wing is a reaction to that. It's troubling to me since I can find some common ground with both sides, being rather conservative in my own personal behavior and economic views but identifying far more with the near-left on many other issues and most social issues. I also don't fear a creeping Globalism, thinking that it's more of a reality. We can either embrace that and find ways to make it work or just be left behind.
As Kevin points out, there likely is some issues for a person that has done this to come back in off that ledge. They would need to admit they were conned and fell for this stuff. That is probably a big ask.
Policy and decisions that get made are obviously debatable things. Funny thing about the Republicans is they don't want to talk about policy. Mitch openly said they would not tell anybody anything about any policy until they are given back control of the Senate and House...which likely is coming soon. Elected Republicans don't want to debate and will not talk. Their stance is NO to anything Democrats say or attempt and promote all sorts of lunatic fringe nonsense to keep their voters deep in some weird fantasy land.
I think these people, the ones running the con should be hated by their voters. Their voters though don't hate them for lying to them...they hate them when they don't lie to them enough.
Trump who had been out promoting vaccines has been advised to stop promoting them because his "base" does not believe in the vaccine. Seriously, they want fiction and lies or there is backlash.
Not normal and it is not about having conversations or hating anybody. It is one side has so snowed their followers that their followers do not want them to stop burying them in the bullshit and the fear is from the Republicans that are worried about their own voters turning on them if they stop lying.
How messed up is that, Ross?
