Green Mtn
location: Observing the Progressive madness with considerably less amusement.
listening to: Grandchildren, the best reason for saving the future.
registered: 2004.04.03
posts: 2617
[view all posts]
[view all posts]
Fair question Peter. Here's the thing, and where we may differ: private charity is going to provide less and less of the
needs of the truly needy, when government usurps the role of society looking out for its own, aka
private charity. Surely you're not under the impression 'government is getting the job done'. Which
we both know, it is not, despite trillions spent on the war on poverty since the 60's. Other scriptural factors you haven't mentioned: Of greater consequence to this discussion, Jesus pointed out, 'that if one would not work, they
should not be provided food'. Clearly Jesus drew a line where charity should reasonably end. You
live next door to Mass., do you suppose the SNAP(food stamps) and EBT(cash benefits) fraud going
on there is isolated(20k+ lost EBT cards p/month). Surely you know people who modify their
usefulness, so they may qualify for their benefits. People view these entitlements as
free, money growing on governments tree, but mostly those benefits are borrowed moneys, which
the next several generations will be paying interest on to the central banks. I could go on respective
to the incentives encouraging non productive results. The thing is sir, the psychological prompts(programs) in place in this society, do in fact, discourage
personal responsibility. E.g., the society at large wouldn't need social security if people had been
encouraged to provide for their retirement instead of for several decades receiving the message that
social security was a retirement program(it's in the old literature). My point being, if we step back
and look at all the Fed programs, the underlying message is one needn't take personal responsibility
for their actions because the state is there to pick up the pieces. AND, in my opinion, one of the
intended consequences was that people would modify their productive behavior in order to qualify
for their freebies; which has been a grand success. As to the health care for all. America already has that. You can be in this country illegally and walk
into an emergency room. [ that is not true of dental care, nor according to NPR this morning, will
that be true in PA any longer: just cleanings and extractions from now on. ] But more to the point,
there was a time in this nation when the Hippocratic Oath was widely practiced; meaning most
doctors regular gave free treatment to the needy; it was part of their regular schedule. Government,
the Federali's in particular, undermined that. Now, I don't believe the US was founded as a Christian nation, BUT!, it's underpinnings via the
colonies that settled this land(I have Indian ancestors, this discussion isn't about that issue) were
scripturally infused. That infusion carried over. Which leads me to this point: one can either have a
cultural whose underpinnings include Christian scriptural norms such as: tolerance, the treatment of
women as more than chatel, the expectation of literacy, respect for rule of law and charity as pillars
of good citizenship or one can have whatever it is we've become and are becoming; which I
guarantee any and all, will be far less humane. It depends which Christ you're talking about Peter. There are two Anointed Ones in
scripture, and they don't have the same standards, nor goals. But on the assumption you're talking
about the only begotten, I seriously doubt he would approve of universal health care, not what we're
going to get anyhow. Jesus has more respect for his creation than to provide them a eugenics plan. Another problem here Peter is unrealistic hopefulness, that this plan is going to be as good as we
would make it; which is utterly ridiculous because we're talking about government, liars who
regularly promise -apart from war- far more than they could ever hope to provide. As someone once stated: Socialism is great, until you run out of other peoples money. All the best....peaceably,
–--
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
G
Green Mtn
(view)
Fair question Peter. Here's the thing, and where we may differ: private charity is going to provide less and less of the
needs of the truly needy, when government usurps the role of society looking out for its own, aka
private charity. Surely you're not under the impression 'government is getting the job done'. Which
we both know, it is not, despite trillions spent on the war on poverty since the 60's. Other scriptural factors you haven't mentioned: Of greater consequence to this discussion, Jesus pointed out, 'that if one would not work, they
should not be provided food'. Clearly Jesus drew a line where charity should reasonably end. You
live next door to Mass., do you suppose the SNAP(food stamps) and EBT(cash benefits) fraud going
on there is isolated(20k+ lost EBT cards p/month). Surely you know people who modify their
usefulness, so they may qualify for their benefits. People view these entitlements as
free, money growing on governments tree, but mostly those benefits are borrowed moneys, which
the next several generations will be paying interest on to the central banks. I could go on respective
to the incentives encouraging non productive results. The thing is sir, the psychological prompts(programs) in place in this society, do in fact, discourage
personal responsibility. E.g., the society at large wouldn't need social security if people had been
encouraged to provide for their retirement instead of for several decades receiving the message that
social security was a retirement program(it's in the old literature). My point being, if we step back
and look at all the Fed programs, the underlying message is one needn't take personal responsibility
for their actions because the state is there to pick up the pieces. AND, in my opinion, one of the
intended consequences was that people would modify their productive behavior in order to qualify
for their freebies; which has been a grand success. As to the health care for all. America already has that. You can be in this country illegally and walk
into an emergency room. [ that is not true of dental care, nor according to NPR this morning, will
that be true in PA any longer: just cleanings and extractions from now on. ] But more to the point,
there was a time in this nation when the Hippocratic Oath was widely practiced; meaning most
doctors regular gave free treatment to the needy; it was part of their regular schedule. Government,
the Federali's in particular, undermined that. Now, I don't believe the US was founded as a Christian nation, BUT!, it's underpinnings via the
colonies that settled this land(I have Indian ancestors, this discussion isn't about that issue) were
scripturally infused. That infusion carried over. Which leads me to this point: one can either have a
cultural whose underpinnings include Christian scriptural norms such as: tolerance, the treatment of
women as more than chatel, the expectation of literacy, respect for rule of law and charity as pillars
of good citizenship or one can have whatever it is we've become and are becoming; which I
guarantee any and all, will be far less humane. It depends which Christ you're talking about Peter. There are two Anointed Ones in
scripture, and they don't have the same standards, nor goals. But on the assumption you're talking
about the only begotten, I seriously doubt he would approve of universal health care, not what we're
going to get anyhow. Jesus has more respect for his creation than to provide them a eugenics plan. Another problem here Peter is unrealistic hopefulness, that this plan is going to be as good as we
would make it; which is utterly ridiculous because we're talking about government, liars who
regularly promise -apart from war- far more than they could ever hope to provide. As someone once stated: Socialism is great, until you run out of other peoples money. All the best....peaceably,
–--
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
posted 2012.07.15
posted on July 15th 2012
G
Green Mtn
location: Observing the Progressive madness with considerably less amusement.
listening to: Grandchildren, the best reason for saving the future.
registered: 2004.04.03
posts: 2617
[view all posts]
[view all posts]
-
So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – Marc on June 28th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – randym on June 28th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – Dan on June 28th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – randym on June 28th, 2012
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – Green Mtn on July 4th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – edlorah on July 5th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – cassandra on July 5th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – edlorah on July 5th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – Green Mtn on July 6th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – edlorah on July 6th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – Green Mtn on July 15th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – edlorah on July 15th, 2012-
Re: So in a nutshell (Obamacare) – Green Mtn on July 19th, 2012
Your Thoughts, GM – Peter T. on July 6th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Dan on July 9th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – edlorah on July 9th, 2012
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – edlorah on July 11th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Dan on July 11th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – edlorah on July 12th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – edlorah on July 12th, 2012-
We aren't here to fight, we are here to dance... – Peter T. on July 13th, 2012
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Green Mtn on July 15th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Peter T. on July 16th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Green Mtn on July 19th, 2012
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – heathcliffe on July 17th, 2012-
Prescient Post? – Peter T. on July 17th, 2012
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Green Mtn on July 19th, 2012
Jesus save me from your followers .... – edlorah on July 15th, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – Green Mtn on July 19th, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – edlorah on July 19th, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – Andrea on July 20th, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – rosskolnikov on July 21st, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – heathcliffe on July 21st, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – Dan on July 22nd, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – heathcliffe on July 23rd, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – heathcliffe on July 24th, 2012
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – messybear on July 25th, 2012-
Heathcliffe – Andrea on July 25th, 2012
Messybear – Peter T. on July 25th, 2012-
Peter T – messybear on July 25th, 2012
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – heathcliffe on July 25th, 2012-
afro our followers.... – messybear on July 29th, 2012
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – mick on July 23rd, 2012-
Re: Jesus save me from your followers .... – Green Mtn on July 31st, 2012-
Re: Jeez! Save me from your flowers .... – messybear on August 3rd, 2012-
Re: Jeez! Save me flowers .... – Herring405 on August 3rd, 2012
Re: Jeez! Save me from your flowers .... – Green Mtn on August 4th, 2012-
Re: Jeez! Save me from your flowers .... – Green Mtn on August 7th, 2012-
Re: Jeez! Save me from your flowers .... – messybear on August 7th, 2012
Re: Jeez! Save me from your flowers .... – mick on August 7th, 2012
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Green Mtn on July 23rd, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – pkjensen on July 24th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – pkjensen on July 26th, 2012
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Green Mtn on July 31st, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – pkjensen on August 1st, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Green Mtn on August 4th, 2012-
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – mick on August 5th, 2012
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – pkjensen on August 6th, 2012-
All this debating reminds me of this Monty Python gem: – Peter T. on August 7th, 2012
Re: Your Thoughts, GM – Green Mtn on July 31st, 2012-
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – Peter T. on July 31st, 2012-
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – Green Mtn on July 31st, 2012-
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – Peter T. on August 1st, 2012-
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – mick on August 2nd, 2012-
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – pkjensen on August 3rd, 2012-
Re: Thought.. – messybear on August 3rd, 2012
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – Green Mtn on August 4th, 2012
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – Green Mtn on August 4th, 2012-
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – Kathryn on August 5th, 2012-
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – mick on August 5th, 2012-
Re: Your Final Thought, GM – Kathryn on August 5th, 2012
Re: Out In Out, GeneralMotors – messybear on August 5th, 2012-
Re: Out In Out, GeneralMotors – mick on August 5th, 2012
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