MJG
location: Keeping a low profile amidst the crazy
listening to: Iron & Wine; Zero 7; Calexico; Massive Attack; Patricia Barber; Gorillaz
registered: 2002.08.19
posts: 1715
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OK, My take:
1.) Alito & Scalia both gave (several) forceful statements before the
case against gay marriage. Should
they have recused as well?
2.) There have been no lawsuits (in the US) trying to force a church
to perform a gay marriage. If one
does come, it will fail.
“The establishment of religion clause means at least
this: Neither a state nor the federal
government may set up a church. Neither can pass laws that aid one
religion, aid all religions, or prefer
one religion over another. Neither can force a person to go to or to
remain away from church against his
will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion… .
Neither a state or the federal
government may, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any
religious organizations or groups
and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against
establishment of religion by law was
intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between church and state.’”
The fourth sentence in the above quote will quash any attempt to
mandate that churches perform gay
marriage, as it should be.
3.) Businesses are another matter.
"Privately-owned/operated businesses and buildings.
Privately-owned businesses and
facilities that offer certain goods or services to the public --
including food, lodging, gasoline, and
entertainment -- are considered public accommodations for purposes of
federal and state anti-
discrimination laws."
Any business must follow the law when it comes to refusal of
service, and are subject to penalties
if found to be discriminatory. They are not churches or fraternal
organizations. The baker was found in
violation of this law and refused any deals offered by the prosecution,
preferring to stand on her
religious liberty. She lost. While she does have said liberty in her
personal dealings, she cannot claim
that her business is covered by that religious liberty. So, in
exercising that "liberty", she lost
business/customers and the shop closed. The invisible hand in action.
The Pizza shop never had any request to cater a gay anything.
They made a public announcement to
the press of their intentions and got some Andy Warhol time. They
temporarily closed due to the backlash
and will reopen after the heat dies down. The money rolling in has been
to a GoFundMe campaign to cover a
discrimination lawsuit that never came. Then GoFundMe closed all
campaigns related to legal defense
funds.
And really, Pizza at a wedding reception??? Why not rent out
Chuck-E-Cheese? You get a band
free!
That being said, I seriously disagree with the Hobby Lobby decision.
4.) No one has taken on the plural marriage red herring, so I will. In
civil rights law, the courts are
tasked with cases of discrimination against certain classes of
individuals. The gay marriage case only
gave rights to homosexuals in the legal construct of marriage, not a
religious construct. The decision
only applies to that class of citizens and that class of law, not the
overall populace. Any case against
plural marriage laws would apply to the populace at large, covering all
marriages and thus would not come
under the rubric of civil rights law. Any changes to plural marriage law
would have to be legislated -
and that ain't gonna happen.
~FIN~
–--
Where once We the People held capitalism’s leash, now we wear the collar.
Where once We the People held capitalism’s leash, now we wear the collar.
MJG
(view)
OK, My take:
1.) Alito & Scalia both gave (several) forceful statements before the
case against gay marriage. Should
they have recused as well?
2.) There have been no lawsuits (in the US) trying to force a church
to perform a gay marriage. If one
does come, it will fail.
“The establishment of religion clause means at least
this: Neither a state nor the federal
government may set up a church. Neither can pass laws that aid one
religion, aid all religions, or prefer
one religion over another. Neither can force a person to go to or to
remain away from church against his
will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion… .
Neither a state or the federal
government may, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any
religious organizations or groups
and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against
establishment of religion by law was
intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between church and state.’”
The fourth sentence in the above quote will quash any attempt to
mandate that churches perform gay
marriage, as it should be.
3.) Businesses are another matter.
"Privately-owned/operated businesses and buildings.
Privately-owned businesses and
facilities that offer certain goods or services to the public --
including food, lodging, gasoline, and
entertainment -- are considered public accommodations for purposes of
federal and state anti-
discrimination laws."
Any business must follow the law when it comes to refusal of
service, and are subject to penalties
if found to be discriminatory. They are not churches or fraternal
organizations. The baker was found in
violation of this law and refused any deals offered by the prosecution,
preferring to stand on her
religious liberty. She lost. While she does have said liberty in her
personal dealings, she cannot claim
that her business is covered by that religious liberty. So, in
exercising that "liberty", she lost
business/customers and the shop closed. The invisible hand in action.
The Pizza shop never had any request to cater a gay anything.
They made a public announcement to
the press of their intentions and got some Andy Warhol time. They
temporarily closed due to the backlash
and will reopen after the heat dies down. The money rolling in has been
to a GoFundMe campaign to cover a
discrimination lawsuit that never came. Then GoFundMe closed all
campaigns related to legal defense
funds.
And really, Pizza at a wedding reception??? Why not rent out
Chuck-E-Cheese? You get a band
free!
That being said, I seriously disagree with the Hobby Lobby decision.
4.) No one has taken on the plural marriage red herring, so I will. In
civil rights law, the courts are
tasked with cases of discrimination against certain classes of
individuals. The gay marriage case only
gave rights to homosexuals in the legal construct of marriage, not a
religious construct. The decision
only applies to that class of citizens and that class of law, not the
overall populace. Any case against
plural marriage laws would apply to the populace at large, covering all
marriages and thus would not come
under the rubric of civil rights law. Any changes to plural marriage law
would have to be legislated -
and that ain't gonna happen.
~FIN~
–--
Where once We the People held capitalism’s leash, now we wear the collar.
Where once We the People held capitalism’s leash, now we wear the collar.
posted 2015.07.01
posted on July 1st 2015
MJG
location: Keeping a low profile amidst the crazy
listening to: Iron & Wine; Zero 7; Calexico; Massive Attack; Patricia Barber; Gorillaz
registered: 2002.08.19
posts: 1715
[view all posts]
[view all posts]
-
SCOTUS gets it right!!! – pkjensen on June 26th, 2015-
The world is Doomed!! Doomed!! It'll all end tomorrow.... – EEE on June 26th, 2015-
Re: The world is Doomed!! Doomed!! It'll all end tomorrow.... – dale on June 26th, 2015-
Hey Dale – Peter T. on June 26th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – dale on June 29th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – Dan on June 29th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – dale on June 30th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – Baerwald on June 30th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – dale on June 30th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – Peter T. on June 30th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – dale on June 30th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – Peter T. on June 30th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – dale on June 30th, 2015-
Re: Hey Dale – Reg on June 30th, 2015-
Let's have a sing-a-long... – Reg on June 30th, 2015
Re: Hey Dale – dale on June 30th, 2015
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