Marc said: You can talk about your body counts until you're blue in the face.  Meanwhile those people were out there trying to stop the nonsense (radical Islamist stone age bullshit) because nobody else in the world has the balls to. 

Peter T.: Marc, a major survey of captured insurgents was undertaken and hit the papers a few weeks back. It concluded that the war in Iraq is radicalizing previously unradicalized Muslims. Iraq is not Afghanistan. We were right to invade there as they harbored the perpetrators of 9/11. Bush's misadventure diverted valuable resources from Afghanistan and that country is probably destined to revert to the war lords and again be a haven for terrorist groups. The people of Ohio who voted for Schmidt are fools, as are those crying out for us to "stay the course" in Iraq, less the troops will have died in vain. It's not easy to admit hard truths, but they are dying in vain. Iraq is headed toward civil war. Whether we bug out now, or in a year, or two, or whenever, it doesn't matter. Iraq is dissolving into many disparate and desperate factions. As to your comment that we have "balls" as compared to the rest of the world, that's more of the mindless macho posturing that got us into this mess. I can almost see Bush in his cowboy hat, denim shirt rolled up, taking a break from clearing brush at his ranch,  spewing such pablum. Nauseating, and pathetic.