Hi Andrea:

As promised, I'll bite. Got to tell you though, this response is going to cover a lot of ground. I've just been lettin' it roll around in my thoughts since I read the link and threw this stream of consciousness together in the past couple hours.

DISCLAIMER: For you alergic to the words of God, there are some supporting scriptures here and there. ;o)

To begin with,

KHC writes:

> The cry of many Christians today is a cry to return to the teachings of the Bible and to have a society which is righteous. The cry of many Christians today is a cry to return to the teachings of the Bible and to have a society which is righteous. The cry of many Christians today is a cry to return to the teachings of the Bible and to have a society which is righteous.

I must say I haven't heard that hue and cry. In fact, I would say we tend to fit the Laodicean description of Rev 3. Not unlike what she goes on the describe as the leaders of this neo-christian movement.

Too, I'd like to see her definition of righteousness. And more particularly, who would be the arbiter? Suffice it to say this is a ridiculous statement. The scripture clearly teaches that such a society can only occur after Jesus returns and 'rule(s) them(man) with a rod of iron', if you expect any justice. In the meantime, I'd prefer we return to our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I prefer freedom of conscience until the King returns.

As to the usury; the bit of research I did was educational. I had always thought usury was excessive interest but in fact it refers to interest of any kind. Comparable with Christians being warned not to take brethren before the civil magistrate, the scriptural prohibition against usury was a particular limitation within the Jewish fold, and thus an idea to be mindful of amongst Christian brethren. As noted in verse 20 however, strangers are fair game(:

Deuteronomy, chapter 23 "19": Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

"20": Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Kinda speaks to what KHC is complaining about. Also, 'the love of money is the root of all evil'. Surprised she didn't roll that out, hmmm.

KHC wrote in the 2nd paragraph:

> Jesus talked almost constantly about power and wealth and how the righteous are to relate to the poor. Jesus talked almost constantly about power and wealth and how the righteous are to relate to the poor. Jesus talked almost constantly about power and wealth and how the righteous are to relate to the poor.

Nonsense. Though I would say the remainder of the paragraph has much merit, excepting:

> I doubt anyone would object to any member of our government living out the ten commandments and no one would ever legislate against the first and greatest commandment which is to love the lord your god with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. I doubt anyone would object to any member of our government living out the ten commandments and no one would ever legislate against the first and greatest commandment which is to love the lord your god with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. I doubt anyone would object to any member of our government living out the ten commandments and no one would ever legislate against the first and greatest commandment which is to love the lord your god with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.

First off, in effect, such legislation already exists, and I adamantly beg to differ that no one(lol) would object. What silly nonsense.

KHC wrote in the 3rd paragraph:

> I am surprised that so many Christians who are fighting to keep the commandments on the wall are not fighting as hard to have them implemented. I am surprised that so many Christians who are fighting to keep the commandments on the wall are not fighting as hard to have them implemented. I am surprised that so many Christians who are fighting to keep the commandments on the wall are not fighting as hard to have them implemented.

Beside the fact that that would be unConstitutional(the implementation), wouldn't we need to bring back animal sacrifice for sin offerings and stonings and the entirety of Jewish Law? Again, who would be the arbiter?

> It takes a lot of searching to find scriptures which relate to homosexuality and abortion but one can hardly turn a page without reading about how to be a blessing to those in need. It takes a lot of searching to find scriptures which relate to homosexuality and abortion but one can hardly turn a page without reading about how to be a blessing to those in need. It takes a lot of searching to find scriptures which relate to homosexuality and abortion but one can hardly turn a page without reading about how to be a blessing to those in need.

No it doesn't. 'Thou shalt not kill' seems to be too prominent, lol. And everybody is clear about how God views sodomy. So please.

As to the question of who and what constitutes a Christian, this fallacious statement illustrates the 'pick and choose' variety of professing christians. This lady also wrote: No Longer a Christian, which I read, is an accurate confession.

> Self interest and compound interest are the way to salvation according to them. Self interest and compound interest are the way to salvation according to them. Self interest and compound interest are the way to salvation according to them.

According to scripture, '...salvation is of the Jews', which KHC notably doesn't mention.

> From Friedman, Pastor Ted says he learned that everything, including spirituality, can be understood as a commodity. From Friedman, Pastor Ted says he learned that everything, including spirituality, can be understood as a commodity. From Friedman, Pastor Ted says he learned that everything, including spirituality, can be understood as a commodity.

Oh really Pastor Ted? "20": But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

> I thought that God’s love was free and his grace is unmerited favor. I thought that God’s love was free and his grace is unmerited favor. I thought that God’s love was free and his grace is unmerited favor.

As stated, the first is not strictly true as God does have expectations of man, 'though he would have none perish'; and grace is unmerited favor, by definition, but one receives the benefit of that grace only if one believes on Jesus Christ, a volitional act of free will, as God's terms demand.

Acts 15 ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

"31": And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:"9": That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

John 3"16": For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

KHC wrote in the 4th paragraph:

> They preach the “name it and claim it “gospel of exponential growth and reciprocity to itching ears. They preach the “name it and claim it “gospel of exponential growth and reciprocity to itching ears. They preach the “name it and claim it “gospel of exponential growth and reciprocity to itching ears.

Interesting paragraph. However, what we need to know is what the gospel is. It means good news. What is the good news according to the scripture, why nothing more, nor less, than the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, for the payment of all mens sins. A subject the author does not touch upon.

> They explain to their followers that if they are righteous, God will reward them with riches. They explain to their followers that if they are righteous, God will reward them with riches. They explain to their followers that if they are righteous, God will reward them with riches.

This get rich mock christianity isn't a new phenomena among the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' or the fakes that tranform themselves into 'angles of light'.

KHC wrote in the 6th paragraph:

> From many other sources and membership lists it is clear that the neo-Christians who are driving our national policies are championing privatization both here and abroad. From many other sources and membership lists it is clear that the neo-Christians who are driving our national policies are championing privatization both here and abroad. From many other sources and membership lists it is clear that the neo-Christians who are driving our national policies are championing privatization both here and abroad.

I am assuming when KHC refers to neo-Christians, she is making a connection to neo-Cons. The same people that a couple of us here believe are 'setting-up' actual Christians for persecution. Also, she is correct, though she doesn't mention what the scripture says Christians should be championing.

> These same people are all in lock step with the Zionist movement. They preach that they know the meaning of The Revelation and preach a very literal ideology of the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem and the return of Christ for his church. These same people are all in lock step with the Zionist movement. They preach that they know the meaning of The Revelation and preach a very literal ideology of the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem and the return of Christ for his church. These same people are all in lock step with the Zionist movement. They preach that they know the meaning of The Revelation and preach a very literal ideology of the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem and the return of Christ for his church.

Scripturally speaking, I would interpret this a bit different. Why: because the scripture does teach Solomon's Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem; and that, midway through a 7 year period of time known as the tribulation or Daniels 70th week, the Anti-Christ will install himself in the temple, declaring himself God. There are different views on when Jesus will return for the Church(which does not refer to a building but an assembly of believers.) More in a moment.

> Current events are slammed into the revelation mosaic often by manipulation. Current events are slammed into the revelation mosaic often by manipulation. Current events are slammed into the revelation mosaic often by manipulation.

Actually, the question becomes whose agents operate by manipulation.

> Recently Arthur Blessett, who carried 12 ft cross around the globe has just completed his mission with his last countries being Iraq and North Korea. Upon completion he carved a small cross from it and sent it into space so that one more prophesy can be fulfilled…“and the sign of the son of man shall be over all nations.” Recently Arthur Blessett, who carried 12 ft cross around the globe has just completed his mission with his last countries being Iraq and North Korea. Upon completion he carved a small cross from it and sent it into space so that one more prophesy can be fulfilled…“and the sign of the son of man shall be over all nations.” Recently Arthur Blessett, who carried 12 ft cross around the globe has just completed his mission with his last countries being Iraq and North Korea. Upon completion he carved a small cross from it and sent it into space so that one more prophesy can be fulfilled…“and the sign of the son of man shall be over all nations.”

This is so silly, it is sad. To be hung on a tree is a cursed thing in the scripture. And who was behind putting Jesus up there, even though it was necessary to complete God's will. Also if you consider the entirety of this verse, you will find that it explains itself with a distinctly different conclusion than one of those demonic Augustine moment's: "30": And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Too, if the cross is such a sacred Christian symbol(symbol/ idolatry?), why do so many non Christians wear it as jewelry. That should tell Christians volumes.

> (you can go to his website and see when you are under the sign of the cross and read about how he led George Bush to Christ in Midland TX in the 70‘s) (you can go to his website and see when you are under the sign of the cross and read about how he led George Bush to Christ in Midland TX in the 70‘s) (you can go to his website and see when you are under the sign of the cross and read about how he led George Bush to Christ in Midland TX in the 70‘s)

I missed this. Should be telling.

KHC wrote in the 7th paragraph:

She's prolly right in her sarcasm.

KHC wrote in the 8th paragraph:

> Let it not be followers of Christ who usher in these abuses. Let it not be followers of Christ who usher in these abuses. Let it not be followers of Christ who usher in these abuses. Let it not be followers of Christ who usher in these abuses. Let it not be followers of Christ who usher in these abuses. Let it not be followers of Christ who usher in these abuses.

Again, who says they are Christians? The fruit certainly doesn't indicate Christian behavior.

> How far will the charlatans go to deceive. How far will the charlatans go to deceive. How far will the charlatans go to deceive. How far will the charlatans go to deceive. How far will the charlatans go to deceive. How far will the charlatans go to deceive.

All the way baby, all the way. Satan's whole deal is about imitating/counterfeiting Jesus Christ, for the purpose of leading people straight into Hell. Be assured, he knows his time is short.

> Perhaps they will project a hologram of Christ returning in the clouds to rally the Christian soldiers. Perhaps they will project a hologram of Christ returning in the clouds to rally the Christian soldiers. Perhaps they will project a hologram of Christ returning in the clouds to rally the Christian soldiers.

In the first place, when this actual events take place, it will not be fake, Jesus will be returning in the air, and Christians will be riding along behind him. Second, even if Christians were around for the suggested fake event and it occurred, real Christians would not fall for it. But it's a curious piece of disinformation regarding a real prophetic event.

> In the last days we are told that many will be deceived. (II Tim. 3: 13) In the last days we are told that many will be deceived. (II Tim. 3: 13) In the last days we are told that many will be deceived. (II Tim. 3: 13)

True. But not the elect. That is, not those who have 'believed on Jesus Christ'.

> There will be signs and wonders and they will do miracles in the name of Christ, but the love of Christ is not in them. There will be signs and wonders and they will do miracles in the name of Christ, but the love of Christ is not in them. There will be signs and wonders and they will do miracles in the name of Christ, but the love of Christ is not in them.

Yep. Plenty of that. Paul in his day said that the spirit of antichrist was already with them. No surprise really.

> I suspect many Christians are being used by the powers and principalities in high places to obtain massive resources for the rulers of an empire. I suspect many Christians are being used by the powers and principalities in high places to obtain massive resources for the rulers of an empire. I suspect many Christians are being used by the powers and principalities in high places to obtain massive resources for the rulers of an empire.

So what. They're not going to take it with 'em. My suggestion is pseudo christians are the deceived mentioned here. This is why the word of God is so important, as it details God's communication with his creatures.

> So while the neo-Christians talk about decorations in our courthouses, the sexual identity of cartoon characters, and preach the good news of the free market.. Let us pray that Christ will tarry until the church is no longer holding the banner of privatization and riding the beast of the free-market into the New World Order. So while the neo-Christians talk about decorations in our courthouses, the sexual identity of cartoon characters, and preach the good news of the free market.. Let us pray that Christ will tarry until the church is no longer holding the banner of privatization and riding the beast of the free-market into the New World Order. So while the neo-Christians talk about decorations in our courthouses, the sexual identity of cartoon characters, and preach the good news of the free market.. Let us pray that Christ will tarry until the church is no longer holding the banner of privatization and riding the beast of the free-market into the New World Order.

How absurd. The notion that Christian humanity will get ourselves collectively right before Jesus' return. That doesn't jibe with scripture at all. Besides which, Jesus Christ told us in the final passage of the Revelation of Jesus Christ: 20": He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Sign me up, come on down Lord Jesus!!! I'm all for it.

> Now is the day for repentance. Now is the day for repentance. Now is the day for repentance.

In this, KHC is 100% correct.

Now, as to the question of identifying who's a Christian from mere professors.

Suffice it to say this is an interesting read and generally I would have to say I agree with Karen Horst Cobb's sentiment, if not all her assumptions and conclusions. Again, though I agree with much of KHC's sentiment, she is not preaching Jesus Christ resurrected, but rather a feel good social gospel. You can always count on that when a professed Christian runs to the Sermon on the Mount as their primary authority for the rationale of their positions.

I come to this conclusion in several ways:

1) the gospel, is the good news. And what is the good news according to the scripture, why nothing more, nor less, than the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, from the dead, thus paying the debt for all mens sins. 1 Cor 15, Romans 10

2) any time someone is continually referring to Christ rather than Jesus, or Jesus Christ, it is always a warning sign. Why? Because there are two prominent Christ's, or anointed ones in scripture: Jesus Christ and his evil imitator, aka, the Son of Perdition, Satan, Lucifer or among other designations, the AntiChrist.

3) Any time a professed Christian uses the Sermon on the Mount as the prominent text for their rationales, you can be fairly certain they are preaching a social gospel rather than the scriptural gospel. Why, because the Sermon on the Mount is not Christian doctrine!

How can I be certain of that? Easy, God's word says truth is knowable. That there is a way to 'rightly divide the word of truth', etc.

Something you need to understand, is that there are two kingdoms mentioned in scripture: the kingdom of Heaven and the kingdom of God. Although Jesus is/will be King of both, they are not the same. One kingdom is physical, as promised to Abraham, Issac, Jacob and David; and the other is spiritual, as promised to Christians. Although they overlap, they are different.

Thus, one of the aspects of 'rightly dividing the word of truth' is to pay attention to the details: who is being spoken to, by whom, when, why and where. During the Sermon on the Mount, there was not a gentile(non Jew) in sight. Jesus was sermonizing to Jews and Jewish proselytes on the mount, who were diggin' the food and expecting their prophesied Messiah to militarily overthrow their oppressor, Rome, as prophetic scripture taught-that event is yet before us. Details are important. So much so that Jesus' entire earthly ministry was about him about being the Jewish Messiah; Christian teachings didn't begin to be preached until after he ascended to the Father and had a blinding little meeting with Saul(later to be Paul) on the road to Damascus. And yet you're constantly hearing religious leaders going to the gospels, which have next to nothing to say about Christian doctrine(how we should conduct ourselves). Be mindful of that y'all.

4) Among 'pick and choosers' are those who say there are many ways to come to God. That's not what Jesus said: 'I am the way, truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me'. Is that clear enough?

So the issue here is authority. Has God said anything? Did God say anything to you? Follow me here, either all scripture is given by inspiration of God, or none of it has any authority, and given who we are talking about it is irrational to believe there is some middle ground. According to the word of God, which is also one of Jesus' names, except it is written Word of God, Jesus' Father is all powerful. Yet, he allows us free will to pick and choose.

Then we have the, 'pick and choosers' who deceive themselves, or others anyhow, with the, 'well men wrote the bible', tripe. Lookey here, what sort of God does that one believe in? "Hey man, my God, he mighta created EVERYTHING, says he did anyhow, BUT, y'know, he couldn't possibly preserve his words fer us, just the way he wanted, like he promised in his best selling book, that's too tough for my God". Pretty weinie God those types got, don'tcha think?-) LOL Boy O boy do this sort have a bad surprise awaiting them. 'Cause, whether they realize it, or not, they are denying the power of God in Jesus Christ. It's sad really.

Anyhow Andrea, there you have some distinguishing characteristics of questionable Christians. Ye shall know them by their fruit.

ps We have an on-going and interesting situation on the site. Repeatedly, one of our fellows is challenged about something Christian. Recently when this occurred, twice I believe, the challenge went unanswered(as is generally the case, where it comes to Jesus). However, the challenged made nice in separate threads to the challenger. Now, wouldn't you think, if you were derogatorily derided based on your association, especially with the God who saved your immortal soul, that maybe you would speak up in his behalf? Particularly as we're suppose to identify with him publicly.

"32": Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

"33": But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Sounds a lot more demanding than that lovey-lovey God/ spins everybody spins on about, "well if he's really a lovin' God, wouldn't send me to Hell like he says he will, now would he? Risky business folks, ignoring your creator.

Naturally, if I can be of any help, in prayer, or explanation, I'd be please to be of assistance. Just PM me.