Of course, I greatly disagree with Pat and am sorry to read that much of his reply is exactly what he rails on about.

ON PAT'S CLAIM OF OUR DISLIKE OF FLAGS, SONGS ET AL.......

For example, most liberals I know do not dislike when people carry the flag or sing songs. Nor does it sicken us. What sickens us is how the right has hijacked the flag, mostly for militaristic issues. The flag is supposed to transcend ALL issues of patriotism, not just militaristic "we're number one" kick ass power. Liberals I know want what the flag it is SUPPOSED to represent (freedom and liberty) back.

And frankly, I think the right desecrates the spirit of the flag in many ways, such as their craven and cynical uses of the flag for purely political reasons.

And if I want to respond such as Pat did, I would say, liberals care more about the US Constitution than the right does. It appears the Constitution is to us, what the flag is to the right. And to us, all other things that represent America come from and under the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

PAT'S COMMENTS ON THE ACLU AND RELIGION......

As for religion and the ACLU, I believe what the ACLU wants is a true separation of Church and State more than anything. I get so tired of hearing conservatives whine that their "religion" is under attack. Pat, I ask you, how would you like it if you went to governmental organizations and had some other faith such as Judaism or Islam jammed down your throat? And I dispute that this country was specifically founded on "Judeo Christian principles" and instead believe it is more accurate that this country was founded with religious and market freedoms in mind and that Christianity just happened to be the most prevalent religion at the time.

TOWARD'S PAT'S CLAIM OF THE RIGHT BEING AS PURE AS DRIVEN SNOW....

As for personal attacks, Pat, your claims are quite surprising. While both sides do this, those on the right have brought such attacks to an art form. Willie Horton, all liberals are traitors, all liberals hate America, all liberals provide comfort to the enemy, rumors of homosexuality, drug use, Hillary Clinton is a lesbian, Bill Clinton is a multiple murder, Max Cleland was unpatriotic (how venomous from the right - a triple amputee from war linked to bin Laden and Hussein by a true draft dodger opponent and all our lousy lying "President" could say is he didn't approve such ads. I have not heard or seen one, not one, Republican chastise Saxby Chambliss for this slur against Cleland). The slurs and attacks from the right go on and on.

KENNEDY CALLING SHRUB A LIAR...(Which is like calling Kennedy a drinker)...

And frankly, George Bush is a liar; Kennedy only spoke the truth and again, Republicans started this criticizing the opposing president in hard times years ago. I recall when Clinton was president, Republican congress members kept savaging him while he was traveling over seas during the war in Kosovo.

So quit whining about the times when you conservatives get the same stuff you dish out tossed right back in your face.

THE REAGAN FANTASY MOVIE THAT WASN'T.....

As for the Reagan movie, what about the so-called free market system you conservatives crow about? What about the flick JFK that portrayed Johnson as planning the death of JFK? Where were you on the right then? And what about that fiction SHOWTIME had on about Shrub after 9/11? You all weren't too concerned about lies then, where you?