Kevin---On reading your reply
I'm reminded of the woodcutter finding himself
in Brooklyn. Nothing to cut. You write:
"Are your party’s motives (providing you support
one) any better? I think Bush is showing that he
wants to preserve our freedoms from those who
would love to threaten them. We’ve seen what 8
years of a do nothing president brought us with
respect to those freedoms." In the prior paragraph you state :A: Are your party’s motives (providing you
support one) any better? You thereby simplify my question to a simple
either/or:
ie; David asks what conservatives seek to
conserve, therefore David must be for
Clinton and against Bush , implying that there
are no alternatives to either. Youre obfuscating. I didnt ask why Clinton is
better than Bush, or Bush better than Clinton.I asked a simple question..."What do
'conservatives' seek to conserve?"B: You then speculate, writing:
I think Bush is showing that he wants to
preserve our freedoms from those who would
love to threaten them; Opening yourself up to similarly emotional and
unthinking replies, such as "Bush is threatening
those who would preserve our freedoms", or
"Bush loves to threaten those who love
freedom", or "Bush wants to threaten those who
would preserve our freedoms"--- all defensible,
all meaningless without the data to support the
statement. One could equally say "Jane runs
down the hill, therefore the hill runs down.", and
have a marvelous time reordering the statement
to suit whatever ones' prejudices of the moment
may incline. You may feel that Bush "is
preserving our freedoms" I may feel that "Bush
is making a mockery of democracy". Both
statements are equally insipid unless they're
placed in a context demonstrating their inherent
structural logic. Entirely emotional, entirely
subjective, entirely meaningless.You then state that:
C: "We’ve seen what 8 years of a do nothing
president brought us with respect to those
freedoms. "Wow. A do nothing president. What exactly
does that mean? Do nothing for national
security? Do nothing for those who would like to
chase interns? Do nothing for business? Do
nothing for the military? Do nothing? If nothing
happened under that administration, even
staying within your narrow terms of national
security and military strength, how was it that the
military could display such a show of
uncontested strength? Was that expertise a
sudden creation of the 11 month old Bush
presidency?But you've drawn me into a pointless, narrow,
partisan trap. I have no interest in debating the
merits of a Clinton versus Bush presidency at
the moment, and it relates not at all to my initial
question. I asked simply. What are "conservatives"
attempting to conserve? What does
"conservatism" desire to conserve?
It's a simple question. You consider yourself a
conservative, clearly, hence your response. So
what do you want to conserve, to earn yourself
that honorable name? Nothing in your post explains that. It's quite
clear that you don't like Bill Clinton. So what?I'll ask again.
What do you want to conserve, of our land, of our
history, of our Republic? I'm sincerely curious.
Because I'd like to be conservative too. I'd like
to conserve our rivers, and our freedoms, and
our discourse, and our history, and our art, and
our culture. I just, quite simply, don't understand
what it is youre trying to conserve.
You write: "Neither of us are evil, uncaring
people, David. I hope for a better world for my
daughter than the one we currently live in. I
know we can do better. There are always two
sides to every story and each of our sides is
never without its shortcomings. I hope this
helps."Amen
David
B
Baerwald
(view)
Kevin---On reading your reply
I'm reminded of the woodcutter finding himself
in Brooklyn. Nothing to cut. You write:
"Are your party’s motives (providing you support
one) any better? I think Bush is showing that he
wants to preserve our freedoms from those who
would love to threaten them. We’ve seen what 8
years of a do nothing president brought us with
respect to those freedoms." In the prior paragraph you state :A: Are your party’s motives (providing you
support one) any better? You thereby simplify my question to a simple
either/or:
ie; David asks what conservatives seek to
conserve, therefore David must be for
Clinton and against Bush , implying that there
are no alternatives to either. Youre obfuscating. I didnt ask why Clinton is
better than Bush, or Bush better than Clinton.I asked a simple question..."What do
'conservatives' seek to conserve?"B: You then speculate, writing:
I think Bush is showing that he wants to
preserve our freedoms from those who would
love to threaten them; Opening yourself up to similarly emotional and
unthinking replies, such as "Bush is threatening
those who would preserve our freedoms", or
"Bush loves to threaten those who love
freedom", or "Bush wants to threaten those who
would preserve our freedoms"--- all defensible,
all meaningless without the data to support the
statement. One could equally say "Jane runs
down the hill, therefore the hill runs down.", and
have a marvelous time reordering the statement
to suit whatever ones' prejudices of the moment
may incline. You may feel that Bush "is
preserving our freedoms" I may feel that "Bush
is making a mockery of democracy". Both
statements are equally insipid unless they're
placed in a context demonstrating their inherent
structural logic. Entirely emotional, entirely
subjective, entirely meaningless.You then state that:
C: "We’ve seen what 8 years of a do nothing
president brought us with respect to those
freedoms. "Wow. A do nothing president. What exactly
does that mean? Do nothing for national
security? Do nothing for those who would like to
chase interns? Do nothing for business? Do
nothing for the military? Do nothing? If nothing
happened under that administration, even
staying within your narrow terms of national
security and military strength, how was it that the
military could display such a show of
uncontested strength? Was that expertise a
sudden creation of the 11 month old Bush
presidency?But you've drawn me into a pointless, narrow,
partisan trap. I have no interest in debating the
merits of a Clinton versus Bush presidency at
the moment, and it relates not at all to my initial
question. I asked simply. What are "conservatives"
attempting to conserve? What does
"conservatism" desire to conserve?
It's a simple question. You consider yourself a
conservative, clearly, hence your response. So
what do you want to conserve, to earn yourself
that honorable name? Nothing in your post explains that. It's quite
clear that you don't like Bill Clinton. So what?I'll ask again.
What do you want to conserve, of our land, of our
history, of our Republic? I'm sincerely curious.
Because I'd like to be conservative too. I'd like
to conserve our rivers, and our freedoms, and
our discourse, and our history, and our art, and
our culture. I just, quite simply, don't understand
what it is youre trying to conserve.
You write: "Neither of us are evil, uncaring
people, David. I hope for a better world for my
daughter than the one we currently live in. I
know we can do better. There are always two
sides to every story and each of our sides is
never without its shortcomings. I hope this
helps."Amen
David
posted 2003.10.10
posted on October 10th 2003
-
A Question of Semantics – Baerwald on October 8th, 2003-
Re: A Question of Semantics – stark raving brad on October 8th, 2003
Re: A Question of Semantics – Rogertick on October 8th, 2003
An Answer – Kevin g on October 9th, 2003-
Thanks Kevin – PatBrown on October 9th, 2003-
Re: Thanks Kevin – Eugene on October 9th, 2003-
Re: Thanks Kevin – PatBrown on October 10th, 2003
Re: Thanks Kevin – DeWester on October 9th, 2003-
Big Problem – PatBrown on October 10th, 2003-
Re: Big Problem – Toby Keith on October 10th, 2003-
Re: Big Problem – DeWester on October 10th, 2003-
I already knew – PatBrown on October 10th, 2003-
Re: I already knew – DeWester on October 10th, 2003-
Re: I already knew – PatBrown on October 11th, 2003
Re: An Answer – DeWester on October 9th, 2003
Re: An Answer – stark raving brad on October 9th, 2003
Re: An Answer – rogertick on October 10th, 2003-
Re: An Answer – rogertick on October 10th, 2003
Re: An Answer – Baerwald on October 10th, 2003-
In a word – PatBrown on October 10th, 2003-
Ah yes...Freedom with a big F – Reg on October 10th, 2003-
Re: Ah yes...Freedom with a big F – Toby Keith on October 10th, 2003
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