On Rush, I'll start by saying while I haven't read Franken's book...the title pretty much nails it. He's a big fat idiot. HA! Ok, sorry...the thing is I wish we could have a discussion that does not involve these folks.  Rush, O'Reilly, Franken, Moore, Coulter...or any of these folks that make a living yacking, writing, making movies...once they establish where they are coming from the other side paints a bullseye on their back and anytime they get a chance they will go after them. Sometimes these people make it easier than others...like Rush in this case. The comments he made were just plain dumb and it's bait in the water to the opposing side. Did he make those comments because he wanted to stir something up...well probably because that's what he does for a living. What clown put him on a Sunday morning football show to begin with?

   In most cases these guys are trying to make trouble anyway...they want to stir something up to get people to go AH HAH! I GOTCHA! Talk show guys in particular because that's how they keep you listening...they say things that are either gonna make you hate them or make you say "Yeah, that's right those bastards are doing that!" because it appeals to  your political philosophy, that's when they know they did their job.

       I bet most people who say Franken or Coulter are full of crap haven't even read their books. I haven't read them so I don't know if they are really full of crap or not. I only know that the media presents us with a stereotype of these people and they are painted to be either hard left or hard right. I think where I'm really guilty is once I've bought the stereotype I then have no use for the person. Like Al Franken for example. All the talk about him made me wonder...am I out of touch because I have not read his books? Everybody seems to know something about him and has this definate opinion about where he's coming from but I'm sitting here remembering the guy from SNL and thinking...Jesus, he's just a comedian isn't he?

 I don't know if I would be better off doing as Roger says and reading books presented from each side...would this balance my opinions more? I think probably not. I see your point though Roger, it's why we argue so hard about what we see is wrong with our government. We see things that don't make sense to us and when we try to explain it to someone that just waves their hand and says...AH THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE A LIBERAL...OR CONSERVATIVE!...well then we get frustrated.

 Pat and Kevin G., saying "well you'll never see the liberal media bias" is pretty much going to generate the same sort of response from you, as asking them to read Al Franken will get from them. Sort a big "Yeah, right!".

Dale busting Peter and MJG for their response to the guy or girl that posted the quotes from Dem's is a good example of how this stuff always works. Someone throws something out there...those quotes...is there an agenda behind those quotes...quite likely...Peter and MJG spot this right off and outraged...probably rightously so...respond with emotion...who wins? What's the score on this? The quotes on their own are really there to serve what purpose? To show the Dem's are playing politics...that they are liars...they'll say one thing at one point and change their minds later just to make Bush look bad now? The quotes are a weak arguement on their own really...the poster or anyone that has a theory on what they tell us should back that up with an explanation. Otherwise, it just appears to be a cheap shot. Did Peter or MJG get anything across to the guy who posted them with their response...probably not...then Dale bats clean up and hits an easy fastball out of the park because Peter and MJG gave him the pitch he was looking for. In this case..."Look at the liberals name calling."...here's what's most interesting about the whole thing, everybody is a little bit right in this case and everyone will hold on to their little bit of rightness (good use of the word huh?) to prove in their mind their side is the correct one.

  We end up with a gap between us and then develop the attitude expressed by Pat and Kevin...the other side just will never see our point so screw it...and we go to bed each night snuggled up with our beliefs. We're all guilty of this right? A case could be made that I was not too nice to ol' Richard now couldn't it?

 If you look under the hood at this example though...this is what I see...the quotes are useless because we don't know why or in what context they were said. Politicians are politicians after all and they do play the game...we all know that. The later quotes...the ones from the Bush era...were these guys saying this based on doctored intelligence reports from the Bush administration? The same ones they trotted out all over the world? If that's the case the quotes are meaningless...just like the intelligence was. The facts at this time indicate, now that we have taken over Iraq, no WMD's exist and neither did the proper set of circumstances to build any.  This also reduces the relevance of these quotes. What are we more concerned with, the idea that we can try to prove someone from the opposing side wrong (left vs right) or that there was a whole load of bad info presented to us and we attacked a country based on false information?

We're all together in this and we're not politicians. We should be able to discuss this honestly amongst ourselves. Why the hell would we want to argue a he said she said deal when it's freakin' pointless?

Same goes for this Rush thing I think. Great he's got himself front and center and in the spotlight. This is exaclty what he wants and if he can cause some lefty to act all hysterical it will provide him with even more material. We really need to pay this guy any attention at all?

 Same deal with fighting over media bias. It's not the real issue...the issue with the media that should concern us most is they no longer serve the purpose that they, at least I think, were meant to. They are supposed to be reporting on what's going on in the world and informing us so that we as a society can identify what we need to address to improve our world. It's sort of a big responsibility and one that some people used to look upon with a sense of duty and honor. Now, the media is just a manipulation factory...at least here in the United States...you have to read and watch everything so carefully and facts are not checked. It's speed that counts the most now because instead of being able to take the time to get it right, technology has made it important to get it out there fast because it's so easy now for someone else to beat you to the punch with a story.

   And, of course, as stated many times here before...it's all conglomerate owned now. So, some stories may be ignored because the news agency reporting them could hurt the giant corporation that owns them and cost someone some cold hard cash. The bias thing is a great way to seperate us and make us ignore stuff because...Oh he said that and he's a biased liberal...and She's a biased conservative so that must be a lie...

    People are people and we have our beliefs but I don't look at everything Pat or Dale says and think "Well, that's just bullshit because he's a conservative."

   Most of the time I don't understand the arguements. If a lefty says something about Bush, it's likely you're gonna get back "Oh, yeah and you think Clinton was better? Well he did this!"...same thing when someone on the right says something about Clinton..."Oh, yeah well Bush did this!" says a lefty.

       We end up ignoring the issue because we're too damn busy defending our political party members of choice. Like we owe it to these guys to defend their stupidity?

      I say screw that. The only US vs THEM I believe in is WE THE PEOPLE vs THE ELECTED OFFICIALS who are supposed to work for us. Instead of defending them, if we love our country and eachother, what we should be doing is telling them YOU BETTER STOP SCREWING AROUND AND GODDAMN GET IT RIGHT.

     It's quite obvious at this point that they are not. Let's not let us calling ourselves liberals or conservatives, republicans or democrats, or any other labels we'd like to attach to our beings, tear us apart. I think we're united in what we want...now let's tell the bozo's in Washington we don't give a shit what your party is, you get your chance to give it a shot and if we don't like what we see...well time to stop being a mouthpiece for your damn party  and get a real goddamn job like the rest of us. Make sense?

                                                        Reg