I know my responses are too long. We're in the final days of this election process so obviously at this point minds are made up. Don't think anyone is going to be swayed in these closing moments...so here we go...

What has been ‘gigantic’ about the Bush administration’s ‘lies’?  Please don’t respond with WMD because there is no case to say that they lied.  

Well, the thing here is Kevin I've seen enough to convince me that the Bush administration did lie to us...again and again...in the build up to war and that to me is gigantic. You don't see it that way, I'm not sure why but I think the facts surrounding this situation have been presented so many times at this point why bother posting them here again.

They had a choice at the time to believe intelligence which said they existed or to turn away and hope the intelligence was wrong.  I’m glad they erred on the side of prevention while at the same time ridding the world of Hussein.

Well, that's it in a nutshell isn't it? You think they did the right thing by attacking Iraq. You think they were being careful after 9/11 and went after a bad guy they felt could harm us. I have a problem though with that intelligence they used in that most of it was 15 to 20 years old. Not exactly fresh stuff you know. Also I find it a very curious thing that they asked our intelligence people to work overtime to "build a case against Saddam" when we already had a case against Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya...etc...I mean we knew where the terrorists were, who they were doing business with, what countries they were from, but rather than focus our efforts in any of these areas we spent time going through intelligence that was decades old to build a case against Iraq. Why? It makes no sense.

We had fresh data on all kinds of of countries and people. Why pull out files and info that had been dismissed 10 or 15 years ago and trot it out to build a case to attack a country who had little to do with terrorists? We had to bust our ass to find any kind of link between Saddam and terrorism.You don't call that a lie? A deception? Or a waste of time at the very least? You don't find it strange? That's my big question for you Kevin, why Iraq when we knew Iran was far more involved with terrorism and a much greater danger and when we knew that Iran really does stand at the brink of having nuclear weapons...why Iraq? Doesn't that bother you in the least? They knew all about Iran and North Korea before 9/11. So, why attack a dictator whose greatest donation to terrorism was to give $25,000 to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers? They could connect Al Qaeda to any of those other countries I mentioned...and with fresh info...not stuff that was more than 10 years old at it's freshest. You know if we told Saddam we wanted to attack Iran he would have happily joined us. In fact he wanted to get back in the good graces of the USA.

Also, all the major stuff that Saddam did happened 20 years ago. It happened when Reagan and Bush 1 were in office. Nobody, not liberals or Christians or conservatives or Republicans or Democrats seemed to give a shit when it was happening. Now, more than two decades later long after Saddam had committed his worst atrocities, now we are pointing to them as a righteous reason to have taken him out. That's kinda funny isn't it? Suddenly we have an interest in what he was doing in the 80's?

You guys would have never shut up had Bush done nothing and it was later found that terrorist groups were being aided by Saddam and wreaking havoc on the world.  But again, what has been their ‘gigantic lie’? 

It's a giant lie that Saddam was dangerous to us. What you seem to shut out is the loads of people that were saying prior to attacking Iraq that he was not a threat. That we had already knew that Chalabi and Allawi could not be trusted...even our pals the Brits told us that. "Don't listen to them" they said...but we did and used their info as part of our reasoning for war even though our very own people said it didn't check out. But see there was this guy...Doug Feith...who was running the show and cherry picking info to present to our Congress...to our Senate...that was meant to scare them into thinking Saddam was a threat. Now it's all out on the table...the UN, Hans Blix, the CIA, MI-6, etc...they warned us the info was bad...and it was, so why was Feith pushing decades old info at us like it was new? Why was he ignoring Iran and North Korea? Did you read my posts about Republicans and Israeli spys? It's funny how everything they say comes out of the old Israeli playbook and Feith was fired for spying on the United States for Israel...and Perle was caught too...and his assistant. Why did Feith leak classified information to the Weekly Standard? Which top Bush administration officials leaked the name of a CIA agent to Bob Novak? Sorry, but the lies here from Bushco are huge and really do deserve prison time. Hey, but we got Iraq. Umm, can you name some Iraqi terrorists for me...oh yeah that's right there are none...nevermind...Saddam did kill a bunch of his own people a couple of decades ago so that makes him part of the "war on terror"...it's all so perfectly clear.

Please give me some examples of how this administration has attacked the media.  I find that statement outrageous. 

It's been one of the regular goals of this administration to include in all it's talking points that the media is hostile toward them and can't be trusted. They call our media a joke on a regular basis and Bush has as little to do with them as he can unless it's one of the usual mouthpieces for his administration...like doing a lovefest with Mr. Fox News Bill O'Reilly. I'd call that a hostile and agressive campaign to cause the voting public to lose faith in our media outlets. It's true when boobs like Dan Rather do dumb things they make it quite easy to meet that agenda.

Here’s a hypothetical for you. 

Here is the big difference between how you and I are making our arguments. You are basing everything on what you feel and I'm trying to draw conclusions based on what has been reported. Now the big issue is you don't believe anything that gets reported that goes against what Bush is saying and what you feel. I am telling you I don't believe Bush and his pals because loads of people that worked in this administration and in the intelligence business have left their jobs in disgust and have been telling us what went on inside those walls. Plus all the other folks that have gone on record to say this stuff Bushco has been trying to sell us is nuts. You've dismissed all those people and all that information and so we can't see eye to eye.