rosskolnikov
location: Far end of the Group W bench
listening to: The Tony Rice Unit
registered: 2005.05.24
posts: 1822
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"the companies here that are profiting from Venezuelan oil get a free pass...why do you suppose
that is, Ross?"An interesting question. At least in Texas, I think it's a realization that the refineries there were
built to handle the thick Venezuelan crude efficiently and relatively cleanly. Other facilities around
the world are mostly not set up to handle that stuff and hence for much of Venezuela's Orinoco belt
heavy oil, there is a mutual dependence between both countries. There is of course an irony to people wanting to boycott Citgo in order to not send cash to Chavez's
regime while still filling up with other gas that sends cash there (albeit less).This discussion has actually taken a turn to the interesting side, which is a nice change from how it
started.--------One of the debates Chavez didn't really have with people in Venezuela was: what is the optimal use
of the money generated from the oil industry there? He certainly demonized the international
participants, but they were merely carrying out contracts negotiated when oil was near $20/barrel
and a bigger slice of the pie was crucial to being able to help at all. None argued that new terms
would be needed when those expired. And few (only Exxon resisted) put up a fight on mid-contract
renegotiations once the price changed so much in the early 2000's. [I liken it to an NFL player who
has a couple of great seasons and holds out to make sure he gets his money before getting hurt -
that's what Venezuela should have done].Instead, Chavez demonized those firms and lied about the reasons behind the existing contract
terms. Of course, the the were there because there isn't enough capability in PdVSA to get the oil on
their own, and falling outputs show that clearly. Now, as Chavez has raided their profits further in
support of his cash hand-out programs, they are literally killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
There will be no quick turnaround as they fall further and further behind on maintenance and
technology investments. Chavez might have looked instead to the Brazilian model. There, they mounted a fairly aggressive
anti-poverty campaign that would seem pretty "leftist" by US standards. And the costs of
maintaining that have clearly hurt their growth in the last couple of years. But things are clearly
improving because overall, they've struck a pretty good balance between allowing business to
flourish and not leaving the poorest behind. They've done all that without expropriations and
poisonous Communist rhetoric. Had Chavez been less self-aggrandizing and messianic, had he taken that middle path, he would
have actually been a a great leader. Instead, he's getting a Lenin or Mao-like public tomb. Those
are fitting failures with whom to place him.
–--
.:RS:.
.:RS:.
R
rosskolnikov
(view)
"the companies here that are profiting from Venezuelan oil get a free pass...why do you suppose
that is, Ross?"An interesting question. At least in Texas, I think it's a realization that the refineries there were
built to handle the thick Venezuelan crude efficiently and relatively cleanly. Other facilities around
the world are mostly not set up to handle that stuff and hence for much of Venezuela's Orinoco belt
heavy oil, there is a mutual dependence between both countries. There is of course an irony to people wanting to boycott Citgo in order to not send cash to Chavez's
regime while still filling up with other gas that sends cash there (albeit less).This discussion has actually taken a turn to the interesting side, which is a nice change from how it
started.--------One of the debates Chavez didn't really have with people in Venezuela was: what is the optimal use
of the money generated from the oil industry there? He certainly demonized the international
participants, but they were merely carrying out contracts negotiated when oil was near $20/barrel
and a bigger slice of the pie was crucial to being able to help at all. None argued that new terms
would be needed when those expired. And few (only Exxon resisted) put up a fight on mid-contract
renegotiations once the price changed so much in the early 2000's. [I liken it to an NFL player who
has a couple of great seasons and holds out to make sure he gets his money before getting hurt -
that's what Venezuela should have done].Instead, Chavez demonized those firms and lied about the reasons behind the existing contract
terms. Of course, the the were there because there isn't enough capability in PdVSA to get the oil on
their own, and falling outputs show that clearly. Now, as Chavez has raided their profits further in
support of his cash hand-out programs, they are literally killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
There will be no quick turnaround as they fall further and further behind on maintenance and
technology investments. Chavez might have looked instead to the Brazilian model. There, they mounted a fairly aggressive
anti-poverty campaign that would seem pretty "leftist" by US standards. And the costs of
maintaining that have clearly hurt their growth in the last couple of years. But things are clearly
improving because overall, they've struck a pretty good balance between allowing business to
flourish and not leaving the poorest behind. They've done all that without expropriations and
poisonous Communist rhetoric. Had Chavez been less self-aggrandizing and messianic, had he taken that middle path, he would
have actually been a a great leader. Instead, he's getting a Lenin or Mao-like public tomb. Those
are fitting failures with whom to place him.
–--
.:RS:.
.:RS:.
posted 2013.03.09
posted on March 9th 2013
R
rosskolnikov
location: Far end of the Group W bench
listening to: The Tony Rice Unit
registered: 2005.05.24
posts: 1822
[view all posts]
[view all posts]
-
Sean Penn lost a friend – Marc on March 6th, 2013-
Re: Sean Penn lost a friend – edlorah on March 6th, 2013
Why? – EEE on March 6th, 2013-
Re: Why? – edlorah on March 6th, 2013-
Re: Why? – messybear on March 6th, 2013
Re: Why? – Dan on March 6th, 2013
Re: Why not music? – rosskolnikov on March 8th, 2013-
Re: Why not music? – Marc on March 9th, 2013
Re: Why? – messybear on March 6th, 2013
Re: Why? – Marc on March 7th, 2013-
Re: Why? – edlorah on March 7th, 2013
You are an ass.... – EEE on March 7th, 2013-
concerning educating Marc – mick on March 7th, 2013-
What pissed me off is the utter lack of respect.... – EEE on March 8th, 2013-
No I'm still here EEE – Marc on March 9th, 2013-
Re: No I'm still here EEE – edlorah on March 9th, 2013-
Re: No I'm still here EEE – Marc on March 9th, 2013-
Re: No I'm still here EEE – edlorah on March 9th, 2013-
He'll shrink and fade....as usuall – EEE on March 9th, 2013-
socialism – mick on March 10th, 2013-
Re: social isms – messybear on March 11th, 2013
Chavez and oil... – Reg on March 7th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – edlorah on March 7th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – rosskolnikov on March 8th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – Marc on March 9th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – rosskolnikov on March 9th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – randym on March 10th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – edlorah on March 10th, 2013
Re: Chavez and oil... – rosskolnikov on March 10th, 2013
Re: Chavez and oil... – edlorah on March 10th, 2013
Re: Chavez and oil... – Marc on March 10th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – edlorah on March 11th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – heathcliffe on March 11th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – messybear on March 11th, 2013
Re: Chavez and oil... – Herring405 on March 15th, 2013-
Re: Chavez and oil... – heathcliffe on March 16th, 2013
The Problem with Chavez's heating oil subsidy – rosskolnikov on March 8th, 2013-
I don't think problem is a word I would use... – Reg on March 8th, 2013-
Re: I don't think problem is a word I would use... – rosskolnikov on March 8th, 2013-
Sorry to go on and on . . . – rosskolnikov on March 8th, 2013-
Re: Sorry to go on and on . . . – Reg on March 9th, 2013-
Re: Sorry to go on and on . . . – rosskolnikov on March 9th, 2013-
Re: Sorry to go on and on . . . – Marc on March 23rd, 2013-
Re: Slurry on and on . . . – messybear on March 23rd, 2013
Re: Sorry to go on and on . . . – edlorah on March 23rd, 2013-
Re: deep down in the muck – rosskolnikov on March 27th, 2013-
Re: deep down in the muck – heathcliffe on March 27th, 2013-
Re: stuck – rosskolnikov on March 27th, 2013-
Re: stuck – heathcliffe on March 28th, 2013-
Re: stuck – rosskolnikov on March 28th, 2013
Moving back to how this thread started... – Reg on March 28th, 2013-
Re: Moving back to how this thread started... – rosskolnikov on March 28th, 2013-
Basically the IMF finally sat down and watched Al Gore's documentary... – Reg on March 29th, 2013-
Re: Basically the IMF finally sat down and watched Al Gore's documentary... – rosskolnikov on March 31st, 2013
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