Icon Re: Double bind messages - spiritual schizophrenia
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Green Mtn (view)

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, GreenMountain. I appreciate it.

You're welcome MB, it took awhile. & I mean no lack of respect; this is merely for clarification. Tis the season, you know.

None taken. So the Creator of the entire universe only chose to speak to those who understood [understand] a particular language

That's a tad bit disingenuous ain't it Bear. Surely you know the scripture is translated the world over. Many of the Amish still use German language scripture.

Additionly, as only two of many examples:

19th Psalm 19:1 ¶ <> The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. 12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. 12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. 12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Romans 1 16* For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17* For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18* For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19* Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20* For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21* Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22* Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

& it’s evangelical translations commissioned by the affluent ruling class to be written by gentlemen scribes of the court

The English translations of the past 200 years have been accomplished with the avowed purpose of improving upon a nearly 400 year old English version that was ordered translated by a King, as the scripture sanctions. You might note too that the translators or their chosen organizational vehicles receive copy right royalties from the nearly 200 versions that have been commissioned since 1881.

In addition, I would direct your attention to the lack of fruits associated with the new and improved versions. And frankly, anyone would be hard pressed to make a case that what we now know of as America would have ever developed as it has without King James order to translate the scripture. Clearly, putting the word of God in the common venacular had even wider ranging effect than what Guttenberg began.

Since your argument seems designed to disavow the spiritual effects of the scripture, I would direct your attention to American charity. Did you happen to see John Stossell's recent 20/20 episode? Among other of his assertions, is that Americans give more charitibly than the American government does in foreign aid. He demonstrated that Christian religionists give more than secularists. That red staters with lesser income levels give far more than blue staters with higher income levels.

And further, I will tell you straight out: this continent would have never been permanently settled when it was if it weren't for various Christian sects deep desire for liberty or conscience(which is directly associated with Wycliffe and King James), and too, there would have been no 1st Amendment(like the one we got) without American Baptists pressing for it.

(dismissing all matriarchal viewpoints)

Not my call.

& disavowing all others without the geographical luck of the draw or the mental acuity to accept the singularly pronounced scriptures as you see it before your present day eyes.

See above, where God says we are without excuse because his creation declares his glory.

The rest of the people, although great numbers of goodly natured land inhabitants of inspiration, endeavor, honor, sacrifice, benevolence, family & wisdom born of study & experience, are omitted from passage into heaven?

You do realize Bear, you are accusing God who created all you know(& more), not me?

He has made his rules. Once they were preserved in hand copied letters, passed among the priesthood and later believers on Jesus, and in our day they are still available in a book in probably every language know to men.

As for me, I believe God. Further I believe he will, and has always, revealed himself to anyone, the world over, who wanted to know his truth. So yeah, I believe billions are already in Hell, and just like Jesus says at the end of his Revelation, he is going call the unsaved dead before him, open the books and then damn those who reject him to the Lake of Fire forever. That's what it says, what do you suggest I believe?

So the Creator of the entire universe only chose to speak to those who understood [understand] a particular language

Too, you might recall, the Christian example has precident, in that God separated Abraham and blessed him, and his children became the Israelites.

Okey-doke. Happy Christmas…. :o)

So why are you saying Happy ChristMas if you don't believe on Jesus Bear? It's spose to be Jesus' birthday ain't it, lol? Saturnalia ain't my cut of tea Bear, but I do appreciate the thought, as I have faith in your sincerity.

respects
–--
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
posted 2006.12.24
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