Curiously, this recently came my way. I found section 5 interesting. I'd be interested in the outcome with your nephew.

.Hi. Some folks asked if I could post replies I got to my recent questions about alternatives to the military for my nephew. I thought that would be a good idea so others may benefit from all the info. I got permission from most to post them. The others are just briefly paraphrased and I'm not giving anyone's name. .I'll post the replies in 3 parts so they won't be quite so long. This part is on the morality of this war. .Many of the replies came from vets. Aloha. LK . Part 1 Morality of This War The question was: What's a clear explanation that participating in unjust war is equivalent to murder? -C- War is poision, it is an addiction and some NEVER come home. They become our walking dead and homeless. We need your nephew to do justice work without guilt or remorse or worse. http://www.citizen-soldier.org/fishback.html http://www.citizen-soldier.org/cs12-enlistment.html http://www.citizen-soldier.org/index.html http://www.citizen-soldier.org/cs11-resources.html http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/states/ http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/?Page=Module&ModuleID=80 http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/top3mset/3f15c72872c1de30a19afeb4da09e526.html -J2- The Geneva Convention, the international rights of the child treaty, The international human rights treaty, and the illegal invasion of a foreign country all make the case for complicity. All military recruits are subjected to very powerful behavior modification techniques to make them the most efficient killer possible and to wash away their natural instinct to be peaceful. There is no behavior modification to return a soldier to normal. This and other military experiences result in serious lifelong mental problems for many vets and the younger this experience takes place the greater the mental health problems. I know of many vets who have committed suicide. -D4- This officer said he could no longer give orders that he could not obey himself and he could no longer support an administration that brought us into an unjust and illegal war against a country that had neither attacked us, nor was an imminent threat. He had been a Company Commander and Battalion Operations Officer, and after submitting his resignation he was offered promotion to Major, choice of whatever assignment he wanted, and medals and decorations if he would have stayed. He said he should have resigned his commission the day Bush took office. A friend also resigned at the same time: http://militaryinjustice.homestead.com -A- Take caution of hyperbole. Who wants to serve knaves and fools he wouldn't care to vote for? The kindest serious perception of the war in Iraq is one of monumental incompetence! But even the failure to provide adequate body armor amounts to the most depraved incompetence. Remember Fahrenheit 9-11'? Bush now wants to invade Iran. Instead, we should all support the Iran Freedom Bill which proposes to fund Iranian pro-democracy activists and pirate broadcasters. Isolationism is not the only alternative. Regarding military needs, violence is a growth industry. Rather than going with the flow, the challenge and moral imperative is to transform the yearning for peace into economic demand. Democracy can't be exported by the military [except in Japan]. Interaction between nations remain lawless. Nations must still defend themselves. To expose the injustice of war, requires digging a little deeper. Re the impracticality and Utopian denial of reality inherent in ideology, consider Stalin's notorious Five Year Plan and the blind faith of staying the course come what may. Re the so-called immorality of paying taxes, the average person has long lost control of the institutions the people created. That is what needs to be changed. Impossible moral demands about soldiers being accessories to murder only make ordinary people feel so helpless they give in and sign up for the most readily available solutions, like military service. Re fear of war with Iran, Russia & China, fear has worked wonders for the Neocons, but not everyone is quite as good at that manipulation. -W- the "Iran Freedom Initiative" basically gives the CIA permission to try to overthrow the Iranian government... What Iran does is NOT OUR BUSINESS, unless they threaten OUR shores. YOU are just as guilty of murder/unjust acts as ANY troop in Iraq, if you pay taxes...YOUR dollar put the bullet in the gun that might have killed any child/innocent that was killed in Iraq...got it? -J5- The Nuremberg judgements, where Nazi soldiers claimed they were "just following orders", but those arguments were dismissed? "Superior orders, even to a soldier, cannot be considered in mitigation where crimes as shocking and extensive have been committed consciously, ruthlessly." http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/nurem.htm - -Darrell said he received orders to shoot. There was a family — two children, a man and his wife — in the car. Darrell’s buddies screamed: “Shoot! Why don’t you shoot? Why don’t you shoot?” -According to Darrell, he simply could not pull the trigger of his M-16. “The car posed no threat,” he told me. -“My superior came over and said, ‘What are you doing?’ I said, ‘Look, there’s children in the back. It’s a family. I did the right thing. It’s wrong to fire in this situation.’ My superior told me: ‘No, you did the wrong thing. You will fire, next time, or you will be punished. That’s our orders.’” -Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith has refused to serve in Iraq because he believes the US are the moral equivalent of Nazis, and because he believes the war is illegal. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0412-02.htm http://www.newstatesman.com/200510310011 -SAS soldier Ben Griffin quit in disgust at illegal American tactics after an exemplary eight year career with the British army. He said he witnessed "dozens of illegal acts" by US troops, claiming they viewed all Iraqis as "untermenschen" - the Nazi term for races regarded as sub-human. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0312-07.htm -Refer to concientious objector Kevin Benderman. http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/24010 "I have learned from first hand experience that war is the destroyer of everything that is good in the world, it turns our young into soulless killers and we tell them that they are heroes when they master the "art" of killing." - Benderman -See the movie "Sir! No Sir!" - http://www.sirnosir.com and the book, http://www.10reasonsbook.com -S2- What are the psychological sources of our attraction to ideologies and how may we account for the passion with which they are embraced? > Individual acts of violence are considered "criminal." Acts of violence committed by societal groups-nations and civilizations-on the other hand, often are glorified and imbued with a sense of goodness. What transformative power of ideologies converts murderous acts into forms of virtue? If your nephew wants to join, and go to war, I don't know what you can do. It's difficult to get people to stop smoking The person has to want to stop, but education can certainly help. > The trouble with education is that it teaches kids to be obedient and admire power, hierarchy, and competition; exactly the qualities wanted by a corporate and military state. Read this POW’s story. http://www.diversityinretirement.net/AlternativeWorkLives/FredHirst.html. Consider the principle of doing to your neighbour what you would have done to you -P2- History shows that this is an ILLEGAL WAR Law students should know or learn why. The military doesn't teach responsibility for your actions. It's purpose is to produce killing machines, who in the eyes of the military, are not responsible for who they kill. But in the public's eyes... or even in God's eyes... it's fooling no one right now. -T- The moralistic/rhetorical question is condescending. -N2- We are ALL guilty by using non-sustainable methods for living. -C2- Two nights ago on the news, was a film clip of the first Iraqi soldiers' graduation, then they were told they were going to Ramadie. They began ripping off their uniforms and throwing them on the ground. They had thought they were going to be stationed in a "safe" area, not one of the worst conflict areas. When Bush sends his twins and Congress sends their loved ones, that's when it's safe for him to go. -M- Troops act as representatives of the U.S. and their obedience gives Bush more power to wage his war. Read the book, Chasing Ghosts: A Soldier's Fight for America from Baghdad to Washington, from a troop’s point of view. -J6-Stress that death and disability are not fantasies, but realities. Separate your nephew from the fantasy-life that young men live in. If all else fails, try getting him into a 72-hour psychiatric lock-up for suicidal behavior. -R2- It's called collaboration, or being an accessory to a crime. War crimes and crimes against humanity are being committed, and claiming otherwise doesn't exonerate one of being a collaborator or accessory. -K2- A young man with macho angst kills stuff all the time with video games and doesn‘t want to think killing is immoral. The youth today have been desensitized to violence (in fact it has been glorified) and they don’t seem to understand the real horrors of violence, war and its aftermath. -S4- The marines are trained to be killing machines. Maybe that's what he wants to be - a killer. I posted something a day or two ago that touches on this. I joined the Air Force, my brother joined the Marines and my nephew joined the Navy, so I base my observations on some personal experience. Challenge him: Why not the Air Force? Why not the Navy? -J8- Anyone who doesn't want to be a killer should not join the military. -T3- Read the Nuremburg Trials after WWII. -R- Study_Details_Mental_Health_of_War_Veterans.doc Banning_Photos_Added_to_Publics_Distrust_Of_Bush_Regime.doc Mushrooming_Depleted_Uranium_Scandal_Blamed.doc Some_Troops_Headed_Back_To_Iraq_Are_Mentally_Ill.doc (38k) Coming_Home_From_War_On_The_Cheap_By_Shortchanging_The_Wounded.doc -S- Her extremely liberal/anti-war friend enlisted in the Marines last April