The whole tone of this Marc and Dale "we're neutral, we only want to point out that everyone else is rushing to judgement without all the facts" and "we only want to provoke reasonable discussion" argument is ridiculous and disingenuous. 

Both of you guys are, and have been, defenders of the Prez and his minions. Both of you made your minds up long ago to screen out mounting evidence, facts, and reality in defense of your pro-Republican stance.

Neither one of you is concerned about gathering all the facts before you decide which side of the fence you belong on. All anyone has to do is look at your posting history to see that each of you made his mind up long ago.

I posted awhile ago in response to Dale's insinuation that all who didn't agree with Bush or himself were "left". No one replied to my post so I will restate here that the vast majority of people who will vote Bush out of office in November are not "left" but middle-class, middle of the road Americans sick and tired of the the lies, the excuses, the deficit, and the corporate hanky panky and the mounting dead in Iraq.

If you really believe the President still has a defensible case regarding anything, have the balls to state your case for everybody to read. Instead of saying "I don't know shit", say what it is that you think you know and let everyone on the board decide for him or herself if what you know is shit or not.