Hi Andrea & Kevin,
First I'd like to offer an apology to all those who may not appreciate the topics I've been taking up space with here on the Baerwald board. I was originally going to post something called "Folk Songs & Panopticons" but then I was thrown for a loop after reading the abortion story and somehow lost track of that. Now after trying to explain myself because I unintentionally irritated Eugene and I believe a few others, I find my explantion has led us into the abortion issue. I did not intend to lead us here.
Having given up politics at this point I hoped not to have to address topics like this and I thought I'd leave most of the political stuff in the very capable hands of David and all of the others here who do such a wonderful job debating things. Politics, in my humble opinion, is a soul killing, skull crushing, blood thirsty, money grubbing, Byzantine maze of nonsensical gibberish that thrives on a wide array of seemingly unresolvable problems which the players of course exploit. Here is my hopefully brief take on this issue:
Abortion is a medical procedure and a toy for our media and our government to play with and not much else. That may seem a callous statement to those who have a passion for this issue but I'll try to explain. They trot this little curio out at election time, as well as a few others, and place the glowing neon "Hot Button Issue" label on it. It then becomes the ball in their game and they (media & government) take turns pretending to be Barry Bonds. The idea is to divide us with it and distract us long enough to allow them to go about their business without really having to deal with us and the issues that may really make a difference in our lives. Many people buy into the charade and become passionate and enraged about the topic. The real issue in the midst of things is should our government be involved in passing legislation that makes our moral and ethical decisions for us. Should they be allowed to delve that deep into our lives that they actually make our decisions for us? I don't think so at all. Abortion should not be abused as a political issue. It has nothing to do with government and never will. It's a medical issue. If there are some doctors and nurses that don't want to take part in providing abortions then that's fine they shouldn't have to. I don't think a bunch of senators and congressmen that have no medical background what so ever should be allowed to outlaw a medical procedure because part of the population believes it's morally wrong to perform it. That is truly insanity. It is your "CHOICE" in your life never to take part in an abortion but the government should play no part and other "concerned pro-life citizens" should also play no part in the "CHOICES" any one else makes in their lives. These are your rights as an American, no?
Now we've reached the point in my argument where a "pro-lifer" will chime in with a comment such as "That baby that's being murdered has no choice and no rights now does he!?!?". The answer to this is NO. The fetus has no rights. It did not choose to be created. Its creation was not a miracle from God; it was a biological function. It does not in its fetal state have any sense of right or wrong and has developed no identity. It does not know its mother's name. A fetus does not pop out of the womb as a little person. I know that our love for our children, which is a wonderful and beautiful thing, can make us view it that way but it is simply not the truth. You won't hear a politician say these things because to many people, what I've just stated seems very cold and would quite understandably turn them off and disgust them. All I've done is drain the topic of the emotions which can cloud the way you see it. We develop our children into the people that they become. We as a family, as a society, will be responsible for how that little helpless infant develops into whatever it is that they become. To those that say "Hey, you could be killing the next Einstein, or Beethoven!", I would say that's preposterous to make such a claim. Einstein was not tracing the theory of relativity on his mothers chest as she was breast feeding him. It took years and a variety of factors for him to become what he became. I think we would do better to focus on developing the children that we have here now. To focus on developing ourselves so we can do a better job of developing them.
When you take a look at something like the "abortion issue" you need to deconstruct it. Step back from the rhetoric and contemplate it a little. Like a jazz musician would deconstruct a popular song. I know women who have had abortions. It was a painful, horrible, experience for them that will affect them for the rest of thier lives. Kevin you seemed to indicate that you thought most abortions were done because women were using it as a form of birth control. Where in the world would you come up with an idea like that? Do you believe there is someone tracking the statistics and compiling a list of names and reasons for why these women have put themselves through this procedure? Did you just say that because that's what you heard? I'm just curious. I respect you and your opinions and feelings and I'm glad you would not want to participate in an abortion but I am somewhat confused by some of your remarks.
Respectfully,
Doc
Dr. Wahoo Capybara
location: Never Let 'Em See You Coming - Campaign 2008
listening to: Whispering of the Sphinx of Giza http://www.myspace.com/drwahoocapybara
registered: 2004.04.22
posts: 94
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I'm Dr. Wahoo Capybara and I approve this message - Capybara 2008
I'm Dr. Wahoo Capybara and I approve this message - Capybara 2008
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Dr. Wahoo Capybara
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Hi Andrea & Kevin,
First I'd like to offer an apology to all those who may not appreciate the topics I've been taking up space with here on the Baerwald board. I was originally going to post something called "Folk Songs & Panopticons" but then I was thrown for a loop after reading the abortion story and somehow lost track of that. Now after trying to explain myself because I unintentionally irritated Eugene and I believe a few others, I find my explantion has led us into the abortion issue. I did not intend to lead us here.
Having given up politics at this point I hoped not to have to address topics like this and I thought I'd leave most of the political stuff in the very capable hands of David and all of the others here who do such a wonderful job debating things. Politics, in my humble opinion, is a soul killing, skull crushing, blood thirsty, money grubbing, Byzantine maze of nonsensical gibberish that thrives on a wide array of seemingly unresolvable problems which the players of course exploit. Here is my hopefully brief take on this issue:
Abortion is a medical procedure and a toy for our media and our government to play with and not much else. That may seem a callous statement to those who have a passion for this issue but I'll try to explain. They trot this little curio out at election time, as well as a few others, and place the glowing neon "Hot Button Issue" label on it. It then becomes the ball in their game and they (media & government) take turns pretending to be Barry Bonds. The idea is to divide us with it and distract us long enough to allow them to go about their business without really having to deal with us and the issues that may really make a difference in our lives. Many people buy into the charade and become passionate and enraged about the topic. The real issue in the midst of things is should our government be involved in passing legislation that makes our moral and ethical decisions for us. Should they be allowed to delve that deep into our lives that they actually make our decisions for us? I don't think so at all. Abortion should not be abused as a political issue. It has nothing to do with government and never will. It's a medical issue. If there are some doctors and nurses that don't want to take part in providing abortions then that's fine they shouldn't have to. I don't think a bunch of senators and congressmen that have no medical background what so ever should be allowed to outlaw a medical procedure because part of the population believes it's morally wrong to perform it. That is truly insanity. It is your "CHOICE" in your life never to take part in an abortion but the government should play no part and other "concerned pro-life citizens" should also play no part in the "CHOICES" any one else makes in their lives. These are your rights as an American, no?
Now we've reached the point in my argument where a "pro-lifer" will chime in with a comment such as "That baby that's being murdered has no choice and no rights now does he!?!?". The answer to this is NO. The fetus has no rights. It did not choose to be created. Its creation was not a miracle from God; it was a biological function. It does not in its fetal state have any sense of right or wrong and has developed no identity. It does not know its mother's name. A fetus does not pop out of the womb as a little person. I know that our love for our children, which is a wonderful and beautiful thing, can make us view it that way but it is simply not the truth. You won't hear a politician say these things because to many people, what I've just stated seems very cold and would quite understandably turn them off and disgust them. All I've done is drain the topic of the emotions which can cloud the way you see it. We develop our children into the people that they become. We as a family, as a society, will be responsible for how that little helpless infant develops into whatever it is that they become. To those that say "Hey, you could be killing the next Einstein, or Beethoven!", I would say that's preposterous to make such a claim. Einstein was not tracing the theory of relativity on his mothers chest as she was breast feeding him. It took years and a variety of factors for him to become what he became. I think we would do better to focus on developing the children that we have here now. To focus on developing ourselves so we can do a better job of developing them.
When you take a look at something like the "abortion issue" you need to deconstruct it. Step back from the rhetoric and contemplate it a little. Like a jazz musician would deconstruct a popular song. I know women who have had abortions. It was a painful, horrible, experience for them that will affect them for the rest of thier lives. Kevin you seemed to indicate that you thought most abortions were done because women were using it as a form of birth control. Where in the world would you come up with an idea like that? Do you believe there is someone tracking the statistics and compiling a list of names and reasons for why these women have put themselves through this procedure? Did you just say that because that's what you heard? I'm just curious. I respect you and your opinions and feelings and I'm glad you would not want to participate in an abortion but I am somewhat confused by some of your remarks.
Respectfully,
Doc
First I'd like to offer an apology to all those who may not appreciate the topics I've been taking up space with here on the Baerwald board. I was originally going to post something called "Folk Songs & Panopticons" but then I was thrown for a loop after reading the abortion story and somehow lost track of that. Now after trying to explain myself because I unintentionally irritated Eugene and I believe a few others, I find my explantion has led us into the abortion issue. I did not intend to lead us here.
Having given up politics at this point I hoped not to have to address topics like this and I thought I'd leave most of the political stuff in the very capable hands of David and all of the others here who do such a wonderful job debating things. Politics, in my humble opinion, is a soul killing, skull crushing, blood thirsty, money grubbing, Byzantine maze of nonsensical gibberish that thrives on a wide array of seemingly unresolvable problems which the players of course exploit. Here is my hopefully brief take on this issue:
Abortion is a medical procedure and a toy for our media and our government to play with and not much else. That may seem a callous statement to those who have a passion for this issue but I'll try to explain. They trot this little curio out at election time, as well as a few others, and place the glowing neon "Hot Button Issue" label on it. It then becomes the ball in their game and they (media & government) take turns pretending to be Barry Bonds. The idea is to divide us with it and distract us long enough to allow them to go about their business without really having to deal with us and the issues that may really make a difference in our lives. Many people buy into the charade and become passionate and enraged about the topic. The real issue in the midst of things is should our government be involved in passing legislation that makes our moral and ethical decisions for us. Should they be allowed to delve that deep into our lives that they actually make our decisions for us? I don't think so at all. Abortion should not be abused as a political issue. It has nothing to do with government and never will. It's a medical issue. If there are some doctors and nurses that don't want to take part in providing abortions then that's fine they shouldn't have to. I don't think a bunch of senators and congressmen that have no medical background what so ever should be allowed to outlaw a medical procedure because part of the population believes it's morally wrong to perform it. That is truly insanity. It is your "CHOICE" in your life never to take part in an abortion but the government should play no part and other "concerned pro-life citizens" should also play no part in the "CHOICES" any one else makes in their lives. These are your rights as an American, no?
Now we've reached the point in my argument where a "pro-lifer" will chime in with a comment such as "That baby that's being murdered has no choice and no rights now does he!?!?". The answer to this is NO. The fetus has no rights. It did not choose to be created. Its creation was not a miracle from God; it was a biological function. It does not in its fetal state have any sense of right or wrong and has developed no identity. It does not know its mother's name. A fetus does not pop out of the womb as a little person. I know that our love for our children, which is a wonderful and beautiful thing, can make us view it that way but it is simply not the truth. You won't hear a politician say these things because to many people, what I've just stated seems very cold and would quite understandably turn them off and disgust them. All I've done is drain the topic of the emotions which can cloud the way you see it. We develop our children into the people that they become. We as a family, as a society, will be responsible for how that little helpless infant develops into whatever it is that they become. To those that say "Hey, you could be killing the next Einstein, or Beethoven!", I would say that's preposterous to make such a claim. Einstein was not tracing the theory of relativity on his mothers chest as she was breast feeding him. It took years and a variety of factors for him to become what he became. I think we would do better to focus on developing the children that we have here now. To focus on developing ourselves so we can do a better job of developing them.
When you take a look at something like the "abortion issue" you need to deconstruct it. Step back from the rhetoric and contemplate it a little. Like a jazz musician would deconstruct a popular song. I know women who have had abortions. It was a painful, horrible, experience for them that will affect them for the rest of thier lives. Kevin you seemed to indicate that you thought most abortions were done because women were using it as a form of birth control. Where in the world would you come up with an idea like that? Do you believe there is someone tracking the statistics and compiling a list of names and reasons for why these women have put themselves through this procedure? Did you just say that because that's what you heard? I'm just curious. I respect you and your opinions and feelings and I'm glad you would not want to participate in an abortion but I am somewhat confused by some of your remarks.
Respectfully,
Doc
–--
I'm Dr. Wahoo Capybara and I approve this message - Capybara 2008
I'm Dr. Wahoo Capybara and I approve this message - Capybara 2008
