It doesn't really matter what I write. This thread is now buried in the bowels of the board. No one's reading this anymore; and I don't blame them. It's all been another exercise in futility all the way around.  

once again, i disagree! we're reading and writing; we love this debate and never tire of it.

and as to the futility of it, not necessarily; we're just still trying to expand each other's perspectives about the situation. i feel that there are valid points to be made about how this war was called for, how it might change things for the better for Iraqis, Americans, Israelis, etc....certainly there are good people in Iraq who are trying - and with some success - to make things better. the thing is, to swallow all the upsides that the pro-war cartel and their media helpers are spitting out is to miss other more accurate realities. just look at the latest news from the last few weeks - it's either just a temporary upsurge in violent activity, or the civil war has been kicked up a big notch. call it how you will, but over time the facts & body counts don't lie. and Condi's statement yesterday is a clear indicator that they know we're not pulling it off so they more than ever feel the need to keep trying to sell it. i for one am not buying it. it was an extremely bold premeditated gamble, it's costing us dearly dearly dearly, and whether it will be worth it or not is still very much in the air (history rarely engenders optomism in these affairs). plus, i had a record $31 fill-up last week, dammit! we the taxpayers won't see much benefit from this gambit - gas prices or national security-wise - but oil companies and military contractors are doing better than ever. record profits, in fact. so, to sum up, we pay for this war in terms of lives and money, and they get richer. not worth it in my book.